Conversations on Conversion is an interview series featuring conversion optimization thought leaders. We started the podcast back in March of this year, and frequently release new interviews. You can download the podcast for free from iTunes.
This is the fourth conversation on conversion episode, a lively discussion with Bryan Eisenberg. Here’s a transcript.
Anna: Hello everyone, and welcome back to Conversations on Conversion. I’m Anna Talerico and I’m very excited to have Bryan Eisenberg on the line. You probably already know Bryan, he can be found at BryanEisenberg.com, he is also a frequent speaker and best selling author of books like “Always be Testing” and “Waiting for Your Cat to Bark,” which can be found on amazon.com. I’m very happy to have you here Bryan, Welcome.
Bryan: Thank you so much, pleasure to be here.
Anna: I’m really excited to talk to you because you’ve done so much in the space of conversion optimization for so long. I could probably keep you on the line all day, but I want to go ahead and dive right in to what I feel like everybody’s been talking about, and that is 2010 being called the ‘year of conversion rate optimization’. Do you agree, what are you seeing, and what do you think about it?
Bryan: I wrote a column about this and said I refused to give my answer to it because I didn’t want to jinx it. I think a lot of people are talking about it, and there’s definitely a lot more awareness, but I’m still very hesitant to say it. In 2005 when I first published “Call to Action,” I thought that was definitely going to be the year. A lot of people were talking about it, and it was starting to become a popular buzz word, people were really getting into analytics. I think what’s going to hold it back, is the fact that it’s still not easy, and most marketers like things to be easy. Analytics got adopted because all they had to do was put a couple tags on and they got some reports and said, “I’m doing analytics.” It’s a lot harder to fake that with conversion rate optimization.
Anna: I think what you have is a lot of new people who have never worked on conversion optimization before, and they’re starting to get revved up, or at least explore what it means. Then you have on the other side, people who have been doing this for a while and it’s old hat to them. In terms of people who have been doing conversion optimization for a while, do you see that there are things that we’re not taking advantage of or that we need to be focused on and we’re not focused on?
Bryan: You know, it’s amazing, I don’t even think it’s a question of what isn’t being done. You know, ninety percent of the time, the battle is not in making a site friendly or making the buttons more visible, or moving things around. It really just comes down to the fundamental messaging that the company is working from.
You go ahead and implement a task with unique value propositions for a client, and all of a sudden you start seeing huge boosts. That’s something basic and fundamental that every website should have, but so many don’t. If you think about the way just one little line is going to have an impact, what happens when you really start focusing on the core messaging and on the core persuasive processes that are in place? It just requires a tremendous amount of work, but I think that is where people are going to start getting to the next level. It’s not going to be about landing page optimization alone, it’s gonna be about the full process optimization.
Anna: Right, that’s so true. What kind of advice do you give to people who are just getting started?
Bryan: Find things that move the ‘Who Cares’ meter. Just test little, little, little things. Don’t go overboard.
I like to explain to people this is a lot like trying spicy food for the first time. What you’re looking for is to get people to have the addiction to the spicy food, to always seek it out more. The problem is that first time you try it, it doesn’t really taste that good, it kind of hurts your mouth, you’re not really sure about it, you may take a couple bites and then you may come back in a few weeks later and try something else, and that you really enjoy. I think that’s really what testing is about, it’s getting that momentum where it’s not just a one time event, saying, ‘oh yeah we’ve done a couple tests this quarter. ’ But it’s that your organization and culture become addicted to this concept.
My last presentation at SES London was on twenty-one secrets for top converting websites. The main secret is about this concept of change. Everything around us is changing and is changing faster, and faster, and faster, and faster, and unless we develop cultures of execution that can change, adapt and test, at the same pace, we’re gonna be left the way the horse and buggy was, to cars.
In the academic world, it’s publish or perish, I think in the new marketing world it’s test or die.
Anna: I love that! I’m sure you’ve seen this before where you have two organizations both pulling the trigger at the same time, and one just gets it and they’ve got that momentum. They may just dip their toe in the water but they’ve got that forward progress, and another can be six months down the line still planning and over complicating things, and meanwhile no optimization is happening. It’s amazing to see how much culture can impact the momentum you can get really early on.
Bryan: Well, it’s even bigger than that when you think of a company like Google. When Google first came out with Google Website Optimizer, even internally, there were a couple of groups that took to it right away- they were very excited about it, and other groups were extremely resistant about doing anything. Then, slowly as they started putting together some of the stories and some of the wins, other groups started saying, maybe we could do something with that. That’s what you’re looking to achieve, and nobody would think of Google as a company that’s not data driven or, or not testing oriented, right?
Anna: Yeah.
Bryan: But now it’s common practice everywhere throughout Google to be using Google optimizer and to have tests running.
Anna: Yeah, that’s a great example! You know, I always like to tell people what sorts of pitfalls they may want to avoid. I’d love to hear your perspective on this. Do you have top three reasons why you think optimization programs fail? I think we’ve already touched on some of them but it would be great to just hear your top list.
Bryan: Yeah, I definitely think that the number one is not committing the resources to getting testing done. Like I said, it’s not a one time thing. You need to plan to have someone constantly analyzing the website, identifying the opportunities, coming up with what to test, coming up with those variations, setting up the test, executing it, monitoring it, revising it and then you know, making it live. This is an ongoing process and it’s not just focusing in on that one or two times.
Unfortunately the way most of our budgets are constructed today, they’re all focused in on generating traffic. Let’s increase our PPC spend, let’s increase our email marketing, let’s experiment in a social media applications or in social media campaigns. Instead of saying, ‘what if we spent ten percent of our new budget and focused it in on testing things?’. I think until that one piece is resolved, all the other pitfalls don’t really matter.
Anna: You’re so right and it, and I don’t know why we don’t talk about that more - there’s absolutely a budgeting problem. It is remarkable that in 2010 budgets are primarily focused on driving traffic.
Bryan: There was a recent case study that showed a company invested five thousand dollars in traffic optimization vs. conversion rate optimization and the conversion rate optimization gave fifteen percent return over the traffic optimization.
Anna: Those are the best stories. Before we wrap up and I let you go, I want to ask, is there one particular test that sticks out as your favorite?
Bryan: One of my favorites that I show in a lot of my conferences because it’s really very illustrative of the process of focusing in on personas and understanding your marketing segment, is the one we did with overstock.com. We changed one graphic and that one graphic was worth over $25 million dollars on their DVD and VHS movies - their movie page essentially.
They had a 92% abandon rate because next to the search engine at the top of the page was a graphic that said “kids titles for learning and fun” so the assumption was that someone looks at the page and says, ‘oh, I can search for kids titles, I’m not interested’ and they bounced right off.
As soon as we went ahead and changed that graphic to ‘search from over 24,000 movies,’ we dropped the bounce rate by over thirty percent and it accounted for over five percent increase in top line revenue in a $480 million dollar company.
One of my other favorites, that’s going to be a simple example to show people how easy it is to test is, is Dell. They had “Learn More” between all the options you can choose from - different hard drives, different memory and all that. Throughout this, we came up with the idea of testing “Help me choose,” and that’s still in the configuration all these years later; it’s accounted for tens of billions of dollars over the years, so you see just changing one graphic, changing three words, can have such an impact.
Now give me a reason why you shouldn’t be testing.
Anna: I know, it’s a no brainer. Those are great stories! Again, I want to thank you for your time, this is going to be a great for our listeners. I just want to remind everybody to check out BryanEisenberg.com, it’s a great site with lots of information. Of course his blog is phenomenal, but also head over to Amazon.com and do a quick search for Bryan Eisenberg. You’ll see a ton of best selling books there for your reading pleasure. Thanks again Bryan, it was good to talk to you.
Bryan: It was a real pleasure.
Don’t forget you can download can download all of the podcast episodes for free from iTunes.
So far we’ve spoken to amazing conversion thought leaders like Anne Holland, Chris Goward, Bryan Eisenberg, Jonathan Mendez, Lance Loveday, and more! Stay tuned.